Comments for Jesus, The Church, and The Coming Kingdom http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com "Contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to all the saints," Jude 3 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:58:16 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part III) by gloriann http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-iii/#comment-27 gloriann Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:58:16 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-iii/#comment-27 So I have had inconsistent internet for the past couple weeks, it is very consistent now (meaning we actually pay for it now) so I was able to real the blog. I think that the way you explained it makes it sound a lot less scary (don't know if that's the exact right word) than it did at first. I think I agree with everything you have said, I just don't think I thought of it as an Apostolic Tribe. How then is the tribe differnent than a denomination united together with one vision, but also knowing that they are part of the larger body of Christ? So I have had inconsistent internet for the past couple weeks, it is very consistent now (meaning we actually pay for it now) so I was able to real the blog. I think that the way you explained it makes it sound a lot less scary (don’t know if that’s the exact right word) than it did at first. I think I agree with everything you have said, I just don’t think I thought of it as an Apostolic Tribe. How then is the tribe differnent than a denomination united together with one vision, but also knowing that they are part of the larger body of Christ?

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part I) by Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part III) « Jesus, The Church, and The Coming Kingdom http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-26 Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part III) « Jesus, The Church, and The Coming Kingdom Thu, 07 Jun 2007 22:22:09 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-26 [...] NOTE: THIS IS PART THREE OF A THREE PART ARTICLE.  PARTS ONE AND TWO OF THIS ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND HERE AND [...] [...] NOTE: THIS IS PART THREE OF A THREE PART ARTICLE.  PARTS ONE AND TWO OF THIS ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND HERE AND [...]

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by Bryan http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-25 Bryan Fri, 25 May 2007 03:38:34 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-25 Ok, my question is (jumping in late on the whole thing) is why are you assuming that the elders in the NT are pastors? We have elders in our chruch system today. I allways thought they were the same. At least in function. Obviously not in spirit. Otherwise we might see more fruit from the elders in the american church system. On the other hand if pastors in today's system are the same in NT. Then what is the eqivelent of elders in today's system. My quick definition of an apostle is someone who goes into a city. Plants a church and sets leaders over it. He then strengthens those churches. I think any "true" apostle should be moving in power. As well as any member of the five fold minstry or believers for that matter. It also stands to be said though. If you don't move in power your can still be an apostle. You just haven't found a full expression of that gift. If you are a believer you are still saved if you don't move in power. You just haven't found the full expression of the holy spirit in that area. Many contemplatives reached maturity in christ but never moved in power. So if that's an Ok quick defintion let me know. Also if you need to ask what a apostle truly is. Why don't you ask the first apostle. Ask Ninja Jesus! http://a170.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/27/l_9b8ec2e1b4b93e1e3979164471cbe709.gif Ok, my question is (jumping in late on the whole thing) is why are you assuming that the elders in the NT are pastors? We have elders in our chruch system today. I allways thought they were the same. At least in function. Obviously not in spirit. Otherwise we might see more fruit from the elders in the american church system. On the other hand if pastors in today’s system are the same in NT. Then what is the eqivelent of elders in today’s system. My quick definition of an apostle is someone who goes into a city. Plants a church and sets leaders over it. He then strengthens those churches. I think any “true” apostle should be moving in power. As well as any member of the five fold minstry or believers for that matter. It also stands to be said though. If you don’t move in power your can still be an apostle. You just haven’t found a full expression of that gift. If you are a believer you are still saved if you don’t move in power. You just haven’t found the full expression of the holy spirit in that area. Many contemplatives reached maturity in christ but never moved in power. So if that’s an Ok quick defintion let me know. Also if you need to ask what a apostle truly is. Why don’t you ask the first apostle. Ask Ninja Jesus!

http://a170.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/27/l_9b8ec2e1b4b93e1e3979164471cbe709.gif

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by traviskolder http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-24 traviskolder Thu, 24 May 2007 22:25:10 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-24 Nicole- So...the best way to recognize an apostle is to find people who meet the qualites listed in Part I of the article. Like I said, there is some overlap...Paul was an apostle and a teacher...I do think that Rienhard Bonnke is both an evangelist and an apostle. I don't see anything in scripture that says an apostle should walk in all the gifts of the Spirit. They are still humans with weakness and limits. I definitely think that not every church has an apostle in it. Many churches don't have any grid for apostles, so yeah, it leads to a lot of confusion and frustration. If there are no apostles around, we should pray and ask God to raise them up in our midst and send them our way. Paul told the Thessalonians to pray such a prayer in 1 Thessalonians 3. But being in Kansas City, you should have no shortage of at least one or two real apostles hanging around. Allen Hood is right though, apostles do turn the world upside down. Often we see them living upside down lifestyles and that is the force that impacts the earth. Allen has often said that the seedbed for the five fold ministry is lives of intercession. Check out Acts 13:1-4. Keep praying...we'll see more of these people touch the Earth as we pray. Nicole-

So…the best way to recognize an apostle is to find people who meet the qualites listed in Part I of the article. Like I said, there is some overlap…Paul was an apostle and a teacher…I do think that Rienhard Bonnke is both an evangelist and an apostle. I don’t see anything in scripture that says an apostle should walk in all the gifts of the Spirit. They are still humans with weakness and limits.

I definitely think that not every church has an apostle in it. Many churches don’t have any grid for apostles, so yeah, it leads to a lot of confusion and frustration. If there are no apostles around, we should pray and ask God to raise them up in our midst and send them our way. Paul told the Thessalonians to pray such a prayer in 1 Thessalonians 3. But being in Kansas City, you should have no shortage of at least one or two real apostles hanging around.

Allen Hood is right though, apostles do turn the world upside down. Often we see them living upside down lifestyles and that is the force that impacts the earth. Allen has often said that the seedbed for the five fold ministry is lives of intercession. Check out Acts 13:1-4. Keep praying…we’ll see more of these people touch the Earth as we pray.

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by traviskolder http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-22 traviskolder Mon, 21 May 2007 22:32:50 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-22 Yeah....looks like you pretty much got it. I think in every church we need godly elders (what most of us call pastors, though in every church there should be more than one) because Paul went around appointing elders in every church that he planted. However, each church should expect to both receive from experienced five-fold ministries (apostles, evangelists, prophets, and teachers) and raise these ministries up from within their own ranks. I think, though, that we should be careful not to expect everyone to have the same five fold gift. Ephesians four seems to indicate these are different gifts are different people that function together rather than one person moving in all the gifts. The examples I listed though do show that some apostles functioned as elders, pastors, and teachers...but I would see this mostly in light of their larger calling as apostles. Most five fold ministries are so focused in one area that they actually aren't able to function in another. I've meant many prophets who we would never want as teachers, for example. But they're great prophets. This all goes to show that Jesus is an amazing leader, able to assemble a body of very different members into something beautiful that will change the earth. T Yeah….looks like you pretty much got it. I think in every church we need godly elders (what most of us call pastors, though in every church there should be more than one) because Paul went around appointing elders in every church that he planted.

However, each church should expect to both receive from experienced five-fold ministries (apostles, evangelists, prophets, and teachers) and raise these ministries up from within their own ranks.

I think, though, that we should be careful not to expect everyone to have the same five fold gift. Ephesians four seems to indicate these are different gifts are different people that function together rather than one person moving in all the gifts. The examples I listed though do show that some apostles functioned as elders, pastors, and teachers…but I would see this mostly in light of their larger calling as apostles. Most five fold ministries are so focused in one area that they actually aren’t able to function in another. I’ve meant many prophets who we would never want as teachers, for example. But they’re great prophets.

This all goes to show that Jesus is an amazing leader, able to assemble a body of very different members into something beautiful that will change the earth.

T

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by Glori Ann http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-21 Glori Ann Mon, 21 May 2007 14:36:09 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-21 I left a comment yesterday and it never worked, a little bit frustrating, anyways I'll try again. So I took awhile to repond because I read the post several times and again with my Bible. So basically the point is that none of the "gifts" (apostle, pastor, ect) are any more important than the other, and we should allow an individual to work within in their gifting, expecting no more or less out of them (unless they are gifted in more than one - discerment is important). So from this, the teaching that a leader must be a five-fold minister (exhibiting all of these gifts) is false then? I left a comment yesterday and it never worked, a little bit frustrating, anyways I’ll try again.

So I took awhile to repond because I read the post several times and again with my Bible. So basically the point is that none of the “gifts” (apostle, pastor, ect) are any more important than the other, and we should allow an individual to work within in their gifting, expecting no more or less out of them (unless they are gifted in more than one – discerment is important). So from this, the teaching that a leader must be a five-fold minister (exhibiting all of these gifts) is false then?

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by Nicole http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-20 Nicole Mon, 21 May 2007 03:13:19 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-20 Ok so how can we know the difference between these because im still a little confused... honestly I have no idea if I even have ever met an Apostle and also should there be an Apostle in every Church and how do you know the difference I mean an evangelist for instance like Ryaneart Bunkie Ive heard some say hes an evangelist and others say he's an Apostle what would make him one or the other or could he be both. Does an Apostle walk in all the gifts? And what if there are no Apostles around? I guess that would be why the Church is often "frustrated, discontented, and spiritually malnourished." I've recently heard more about "Apostolic witness on the Earth" Allan Hood calls Apostles people who are turning the world upsidedown who when they walk into a place the whole city takes notice and these people are only a few on the whole Earth and what about those who were known Missionaries of the past like Brainerd or Revivalists like Finney wasnt there an apostolic witness on them? So would that make them apostles or not? Ok so how can we know the difference between these because im still a little confused… honestly I have no idea if I even have ever met an Apostle and also should there be an Apostle in every Church and how do you know the difference I mean an evangelist for instance like Ryaneart Bunkie Ive heard some say hes an evangelist and others say he’s an Apostle what would make him one or the other or could he be both. Does an Apostle walk in all the gifts? And what if there are no Apostles around? I guess that would be why the Church is often “frustrated, discontented, and spiritually malnourished.”
I’ve recently heard more about “Apostolic witness on the Earth” Allan Hood calls Apostles people who are turning the world upsidedown who when they walk into a place the whole city takes notice and these people are only a few on the whole Earth and what about those who were known Missionaries of the past like Brainerd or Revivalists like Finney wasnt there an apostolic witness on them? So would that make them apostles or not?

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) by Sasquatch http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-17 Sasquatch Sat, 19 May 2007 02:40:16 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/17/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-ii/#comment-17 That's deep man. But very enlightening. I'm gonna hafta reread it when I have more time, but I think I have a beginning understanding of the whole.. uh... thing you were talking about. That’s deep man. But very enlightening. I’m gonna hafta reread it when I have more time, but I think I have a beginning understanding of the whole.. uh… thing you were talking about.

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part I) by Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) « Jesus, The Church, and The Coming Kingdom http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-16 Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) « Jesus, The Church, and The Coming Kingdom Thu, 17 May 2007 22:27:27 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-16 [...] Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) May 17, 2007 Posted by traviskolder in Uncategorized. trackback [EDITORS’S NOTE: THIS IS PART TWO OF A THREE PART ARTICLE.  PART ONE OF THIS ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND HERE.]  [...] [...] Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part II) May 17, 2007 Posted by traviskolder in Uncategorized. trackback [EDITORS’S NOTE: THIS IS PART TWO OF A THREE PART ARTICLE.  PART ONE OF THIS ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND HERE.]  [...]

]]> Comment on Foundations For the Coming Apostolic Shift (Part I) by traviskolder http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-15 traviskolder Mon, 07 May 2007 16:45:18 +0000 http://apostolicchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/foundations-for-the-coming-apostolic-shift-part-i/#comment-15 Hey Glori Ann You're very welcome...stay tuned there's more to come. Keep letting me know if these posts are helpful or not. So, I'll try and touch on your questions a little bit here. I wanted to spend more time on the "risen Christ" side of the apostolic ministry, but it just kept going and going and felt more like an article in itself. Plus it was keeping me from publishing this article. I'll comment a little here on the subject, and then hopefully the resurrection article I have planned for after this three-parter will help answer things in more detail. Part of the reason the issue is so large is because it touches on all the fears and inadequacies that come from being part the church of the west. So often the idea that someone has seen Jesus in more than just a vision will either weird us out or make us feel inadequate for not having such an experience. But I hope to show in my article why it is so essential to the modern church to have witnesses about a man who rose from the dead. First off, let me say I know of men who have claimed to have encountered Jesus in such a radical way. I also know men who have known other men who have encountered Jesus the same way. The fruit of their lives is always a whole other league. It exceeds those who have even had radical encounters with the Holy Spirit. Their lives bear the mark of something that has originated from heaven, even if they are weak human vessels. Their encounter has served not just as a unique spiritual experience, but it is a "dispatching from heaven" of sent messengers. The idea that Jesus has risen from the dead is central to the Christian faith, something I hope to make clear when I write more about resurrection. The beauty of the resurrection of Jesus is more than just the fact that he was dead and He ascended to Heaven. Jesus continues to live forever. He reigns and rules from Heaven and directs His body as the Head of the Church. But, He does at times visit those He chooses in order irreversibly change their lives in the same way He did with Paul in Acts 13. He’s more than just a dead person without a body waiting in Heaven till the end of the age. He’s a resurrected man who did not die again. He can cross the boundaries between earth and Heaven. This does not negate the fact that Christians are called to be witnesses of the resurrection in their every day lives. We are all called to be witnesses of the resurrection by our changed lives and the power of the Spirit that rests on us and touches others. This ministry of every believer is actually bolstered by the select ones God reveals Himself to in a unique way. Hopefully that helps. Keep tuned. We’ll get to some of the nitty gritty of this stuff soon. Travis Hey Glori Ann

You’re very welcome…stay tuned there’s more to come. Keep letting me know if these posts are helpful or not. So, I’ll try and touch on your questions a little bit here. I wanted to spend more time on the “risen Christ” side of the apostolic ministry, but it just kept going and going and felt more like an article in itself. Plus it was keeping me from publishing this article.

I’ll comment a little here on the subject, and then hopefully the resurrection article I have planned for after this three-parter will help answer things in more detail. Part of the reason the issue is so large is because it touches on all the fears and inadequacies that come from being part the church of the west. So often the idea that someone has seen Jesus in more than just a vision will either weird us out or make us feel inadequate for not having such an experience. But I hope to show in my article why it is so essential to the modern church to have witnesses about a man who rose from the dead.

First off, let me say I know of men who have claimed to have encountered Jesus in such a radical way. I also know men who have known other men who have encountered Jesus the same way. The fruit of their lives is always a whole other league. It exceeds those who have even had radical encounters with the Holy Spirit. Their lives bear the mark of something that has originated from heaven, even if they are weak human vessels. Their encounter has served not just as a unique spiritual experience, but it is a “dispatching from heaven” of sent messengers.

The idea that Jesus has risen from the dead is central to the Christian faith, something I hope to make clear when I write more about resurrection. The beauty of the resurrection of Jesus is more than just the fact that he was dead and He ascended to Heaven. Jesus continues to live forever. He reigns and rules from Heaven and directs His body as the Head of the Church. But, He does at times visit those He chooses in order irreversibly change their lives in the same way He did with Paul in Acts 13. He’s more than just a dead person without a body waiting in Heaven till the end of the age. He’s a resurrected man who did not die again. He can cross the boundaries between earth and Heaven.

This does not negate the fact that Christians are called to be witnesses of the resurrection in their every day lives. We are all called to be witnesses of the resurrection by our changed lives and the power of the Spirit that rests on us and touches others. This ministry of every believer is actually bolstered by the select ones God reveals Himself to in a unique way.

Hopefully that helps. Keep tuned. We’ll get to some of the nitty gritty of this stuff soon.

Travis

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